Episode 56: Mat Pesch Former Scientology Finance Guy

August 31 Episode 56: Mat Pesch Former Scientology Finance Guy
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The AfterMath S 2 Ep 9

Mat appeared on the Aftermath

The "Dissemination Division"

Mat was the Dissemination Secretary, over the 2nd (of 7) divisions of a scientology organization responsible for marketing, booksales and fundraising.

The "Treasury Division"

Mat was also the Treasury Secretary — head of the 3rd Division of a scientology organization. This Division invoices all income, banks it, keeps track of the bank accounts, does the purchasing and pays the bills of the organization:

A Flag Price List
Flag Accommodations Price List
Big League Sales

Hubbard pushed Big League Sales as “standard tech” in scientology. Les Dane was even coopted to do personal training in scientology organizations.

Hubbard on Big League Sale
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Big Contributors

People hand over tens and even hundreds of millions…

More Fundraising

They’ve collected more for this building they don’t need than it could possibly cost.


  • Mark Bridgewater says:

    Where did Hubbard claim that he got all this information about BT’s and all the other outlandish crap

  • Odelya M. Levy says:

    Could you do another episode with Mat? I Don’t think you exhausted all the functions of Mat as a senior finance.

  • Laura Williams says:

    I really wonder what Mike and Leah’s opinions are of the celebrities who have recently distanced themselves from Scientology, Laura Prepon, John Travolta etc…. Do you, asindividuals who are most familiar with the inner workings of this cult, feel that this could be indicative of Scientologies’ imminent demise? Or are these temporary orchestrated PR ploys?

  • GK says:

    Okay, as a very knowledgeable Scientology watcher, I’m curious: has there ever been an exerted campaign on visa Amex MasterCard etc to stop accepting coerced “donations” that financially ruin people? Corporations are more concerned with their brands than ever before and this seems like a good line of attack if governments don’t act…

  • Murphy Smith says:

    Has anyone ever tried or been successful at laundering money from Scientology?

  • GK says:

    [I tried to post this once before and I don’t know what happened.]

    Since I’m very skeptical the government will act, I think one way to fight back against the church is by putting pressure on the credit card companies that are complicit in this scheme. Corporations are more concerned than ever with their brand and exercising social responsibility. If there was public pressure put on Visa, MasterCard and American Express to stop allowing transactions from FSO/ Scientology fundraising I think it would do some good. Sure people could still write a check but they wouldn’t go into massive debt; they’d have to have the cash to give.

    I imagine that somewhere in the merchant agreement Scientology signed, they’re in violation. Coerced high pressure “donations” that send people into financial ruin are abusive and the credit card companies should be ashamed. A simple “Visa supports Scientology abuse” post on Instagram that goes viral would be a start….

    Please steal this idea, I think it’s a very good pressure point for the church.

  • ann dom says:

    been listening fir a while and noticed that you often forget the Village Voice when you mention publications that deeply covered Scientology.

  • Christine Almeida says:

    Love your podcast and just binged the show. I see a lot of parallels between LRH, Miscavage, and Trump — they all seem like grifters who dig in deep over a small grudge and it ends up costing them more money, time, whatever. All have been called malignant narcissists. Thoughts? Thanks for all your work!

  • Simone says:

    I loved this episode, “the patron gigatorius”. Lol

    What if you just say I’m not paying for any of this and have the gusts to just walk away, what will they do?

  • Kiaya Hargis says:

    Would you both (Mike & Leah) still be in Scientology if Ron Hubbard was still alive and in charge of Scientology? Or do you think that you still would have left at some point?

  • Lauren B says:

    Is the IAS membership a one time payment or yearly? Love the podcast and the Aftermath show!

  • Ammo Alamo says:

    This comment is meant to be constructive criticism. If that bothers you, stop reading.

    I am starting from the beginning and listening to every episode of Scientology: Fair Game. One thing has struck me during the first ten or so, and that is the “acks” that Scilons learn early on, and must use in every conversation. An ‘Ack’ is an acknowledgement. So if I say “I went to the store for milk” my scilon partner will ack me, by saying something like “Right” or “I see” or “of course.” That is Hubbard’s teaching, and it is still Source and inviolate instructions for every scilon.

    I case you haven’t noticed, all this ‘ack’ verbiage has become just so much background noise, quite annoying, and not really an acknowledgement at all, just a bobbing head on one hand, or an arrogant attempt to say whether or not your statement is right or wrong, accurate, understandable, or useful. The speaker gets judged not just once, but twice, three times or more every sentence. Being constantly judged in everyday small talk or even explanations of events or processes is very annoying, and an impediment to clear communication. There is something about hearing judgmental words like “that’s right” or “of course” or “obviously” that breaks up the speaker’s ability to maintain a train of thought.
    The speaker is likely to clam up and not tell their whole story if they are interrupted often, or feel like they are being judged as they speak.

    My peeves show up in this podcast every time one of the interviewers, whether Leah or Mike, or even a guest, constantly interrupts another speaker with these acks. Just listen carefully, and count the number of times a guest is allowed to complete a sentence or a paragraph or a story without getting one of these ‘yeah’, ‘sure’, ‘that’s right’ acks that just screw with the interview. It is very bad interview technique. It stifles free flow of the guest’s story. It is simply a remnant of the earliest TR routines learned in Scientology.

    Now that I have made myself persona non grata, let me air a couple of pet peeves. One, there must be a better way to let listeners know what “SP” means than interrupting a guest or co-host every single podcast. Same with the OSA and GO and several other acronyms. Along with that, another peeve is interrupting every time to tell the co-host to put info here on the website. Guess what – both hosts know when info needs to be on the website, without being told. It just screws with the flow of the podcast.. It might be better to spend ten seconds at the beginning to announce where to find the definitions of SP, OSA, etc, and where to find the info pertaining to that week’s episode.

    I hope both principles can grow into well-rounded interviewers, eliminating annoying habits left over from their TRs. I thank both Leah and Mike for their hard work fighting against the abuses within Scientology, and wish them both the best of luck today and in the future. But puh-leeze, drop all those annoying and needless ‘acks’ and all those needless interruptions to define SPs or to remind someone to post something on the podcast website.

    • uc says:

      As you continue listening, you will note that the hosts KNOW that they interrupt a lot, and get criticized for it (they joke about it in several episodes). They interrupt anyway. I don’t think that they can stop themselves. They also go down many rabbit holes and never get back to the original topic. There are several guests who talk for less than 5 minutes in an entire episode. It’s probably my #1 pet peeve too.

  • Ammo Alamo says:

    I just found the podcast’s Glossary. In my browser, Opera, the Glossary is part of the black and white left border, and way down at the bottom. The link does not appear on the page until I reduce the size to 50%. OK, once I found the Glossary link and clicked on it, it seems to be a pretty good glossary. Maybe the podcast just needs to mention where to find the Glossary link more often.

  • Britani Bowman says:

    Thank you for explaining what happens at Flag when visitors come for training. I’d love to learn more about front group providing “financial education” to veterinarians to improve their business. I saw a Scientology accounting book in a veterinarian friend’s car. He recently went to training in Clearwater. I didn’t even know what to say because I knew I’d go into a non-productive lecture.

    I love the podcast and the show. Thank you for educating all of us and giving people the forum to share their experiences.

  • Stephen E says:

    Hello Mike and Leah!

    I have a question–

    What would happen if one of you tried to rejoin the church? What would they do? What would that look like externally and internally, and what would they make you go through? Would it be different for Leah vs. Mike?

    Love your show, your previous shows, and all of the important work you both do. Thank you for everything! Rooting for you!


  • UC says:

    Could you do an episode dedicated to the different legal and physical entities of Scientology? I get confused by, for example, Flag in FL and Gold Base in CA, both of which are called “headquarters”. And then Miscavige is in charge of RTC (wherever that is), so you’d think that’d be the headquarters, but it’s not? And then IAS? Who is in charge of that if it isn’t Miscavige? And then there’s a guy who is the President, but he’s not really the president (cuz he’s in the hole I think)? I’m just really confused by all the different entities that make up Scientology and who runs them.

  • K. Baringer says:

    Who manufactures the E Meters? Shouldn’t they be legally obligated to say they don’t actually produce legitimate readings? Have you or anyone else ever taken one apart to see how it’s designed?

    Could former scientologists sue the manufacturer for making false claims?

    • nobody says:

      I believe they used to be manufactured at Gold, not sure if they still are. As for suing, they sign legal disclaimers that would keep scientology from being responsible for anything.

  • Aleah H Carter says:

    Listening to the episode, I got the sense that Scientology sells you on Disneyland. You stay, thinking you’re settling for a Six Flags, and what you end up getting in return isn’t even comparable to a county fair. Does that sound about right?

  • Jennifer Matthews says:

    I just found out there was a podcast. I watched the TV documentary and loved it. And I’m so pleased that you guys are still fighting on. When I was much younger I dated a guy who was a Scientologist. He immediately started trying to convert me and gave me Dianetic’s. I broke up with him but I wonder if I would have been sucked into Scientology if we had stayed together. I would have had to join the sea org because I didn’t have any money and would have ended up a brainwashed slave. I was shocked to learn that Scientology got 3 PPP loans and I intend to call my congressman and state senators about it.

  • Hwill says:

    There is a YouTube channel posting these episodes. Is that official? It seems to have a very low sub count and it is slowly posting episodes. I’d like to support the channel if that is legitimate.

  • PS says:

    Has David Miscavige added on to the Scientology mythology/theology at all? Has he had any past life acid trips a la Hubbard? Or any revelations to keep folks interested? Do people revere him the same way they did L Ron or is it mostly fear? From how y’all describe it, Scientology seems much more boring under Dave M.

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