Episode 16: Jehovah’s Witness Whistleblower Lloyd Evans

November 10 Episode 16: Jehovah’s Witness Whistleblower Lloyd Evans

Leah and Mike talk to Lloyd about the similarities between scientology and the JW’s and how the JW’s have grown more scientology-like in their Fair Game-style attacks on those who expose their abuses.

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View Documents (5)
The Martyrdom of Jerod Septer

The video Lloyd refers to of the child who died due to his parents refusal to allow a blood transfusion

The Reluctant Apostate

Lloyd’s first book

Escape from Jehovah's Witnesses

Lloyd’s second book

JW Survey.org
The Reluctant Apostate website


  • Scott in CA says:

    I love listening to these heroic people. Mike & Leah – is there any chance that you will ever touch Mormonism?? There are many of us who were leaders in the org who would gladly help in any way, and it is badly needed. Lloyd Evans knows some really smart and connected ex-Mormons and has worked with them, too. And I will literally drop everything to help connect you with key figures. Thanks, keep it up!

    • Beth says:

      I was raised a Jehovah’s WItness and left when I was 19, years later joined Jehovah’s Witness Recovery forum and we talked to may former Mormons. They always felt like kindred spirits in recovery and in the cult experience. I just wanted to reiterate the post aboves point, Mormans are another one. They have very similar rules about excuminication and have broken up many families. Thank you for bringing awareness to the cults that rob people of their lives.

  • Kirsty says:

    I loved this episode! I am am ex-JW that finds your show very therapeutic. Its just close enough that it helps me process emotions and trauma. The ex-JW books and blogs are still to triggering. THANK YOU for what you do!!!

  • Dick says:

    Hello, while listening to this episode, I was reminded of a site I used to visit in middle school it was www. xenu.net which would bring me to “Operation Clambake.” Wondering if anyone else visited the site, or if Mike and Leah have ever heard of it. It was a site dedicated to exposing the lies of the church. I was visiting it in the late 90’s

  • Elizabeth Webb says:

    Lloyd Evans is really on to something when he talks about “fact checking” your beliefs. I was raised Baptist (like the Duggars). The mental illness I had was treated like a spiritual weakness, and exorcism was even suggested. It was after deciding to read the bible and praying for wisdom, that I saw a god of contradictions, and even murder and hate. I became a healthy atheist from seeking the truth. Great podcast! Thank you!

  • Sydney says:

    Hi Leah and Mike! Thank you for what you guys do. You’re amazing. I never knew anything about Scientology until watching the Aftermath this month but am now obsessed with learning more. Leah— you gotta let Mike finish his sentences. He talks slow but I wanna hear what he has to say. Lol. Love you guys!

  • Mary says:

    You can substitute the words “Trump Supporter” for the words “Scientologist” or “Jehovahs Witness, in today’s podcast.
    Fully transferable information, and I thank
    you for it. Like you said…if you are ok with someone hurting others, violating children, oppressing women and others and total and complete mind control, you are NOT someone I am willing to align with.
    I love the show and the podcasts, but today it really helped me to understand that I in fact DO NEED TO separate from these people in my life. #trumpisacult

  • Sandra says:

    I watched ‘America’s Book of Secrets” for the Scientology episode because I’ve seen it before, but now it’s gone. I literally had to laugh! Of course it’s gone! What a world where even global networks don’t want to deal with this shit.

  • Margaret Persinger says:

    I know a lot about jw alit of my family is and it’s sad cause the ones that are in this church don’t really talk to the rest of us and if they do it’s only to get you to join but then again there are a lot of religions this way anymore and it’s sad my own father don’t really talk to me any more because of his religion and if I ask for advice it’s always go to church or pray on it and that hurts more then anything

  • Dan Wawro says:

    Thank you so much for such an amazing episode. I grew up as a witness and have had to deal with such pain dealing with my family disassociating me just for trying to live my own life and be with a woman outside of the religion. Thank you for shedding light on what a horrible corrupt cult this is and the affect it has on us.

  • Beth says:

    If you are ever interested in hearing a story where Jehovah’s Witnesses messed up and the elders tried to cover up their behavior, let me know. It helped me escape. Because of their mess up, I was never disfellowshipped so I still have contact with my mother who is still in. They still beg me to return. Not happening. Things that helped me de-program and find myself are Steve Hassan’s book about Cults, of course, and “Codependancy no more” by Melody Beattie. Apparently, being in a cult makes you very codependent and stop trusting yourself. I cannot recommend it enough. After I was finally out longer than I was in, (19 years) was I ever really at peace about who I was and ready to stop being an exJW and just being me without feeling the label. It gets better. It’s worth it. A day free to make your own mistakes and to own your own happiness is worth losing the fake promise of forever in paradise.

  • Joanne says:

    Hi Mike and Leah – I know Scientologists are not allowed to read anything negative regarding Scientology but is there anything forbidding them from reading blogs, news, etc about Jonestown, NXIVM or any other cult, and they can see the similarities and make the connection that they too are in a cult?

    • Mike Rinder says:

      Generally they consider all media is “bad” — and you can be sure that any scientologist thinks members of NXIVM or People’s Temple are sucker cult-members. Unlike like them. They are Enlighted higher beings.

  • Sam says:

    Being a JW, i always had serious doubts about the religion but still, i would never dare to look up any critical material about it. This episode introduced me to Lloyd’s work and was basically the point where i started to fully wake up, fast. Now it’s been almost two months since i left the org. Despite the shunning, i’m starting to feel free for the first time. Leah and Mike, thank you so much! Keep up your good work.

  • Michelle Melone says:

    Does any ex-Scientologist believe in God? The Bible? Or has scientology experience tainted you from anything or any religion?

  • Jessica says:

    Love this episode. I’m not a JW, but I knew a little bit about the “religion.”, but I didn’t know about the separation of families. Doing research is great advice for anything. When I was thinking about joining a Multilevel Marketing company, I told my mother and she told me to send info to her to look at. She said was saying it didn’t look like a good company to work for and she told me to look at the info too. After reading the info on the company, I decided she was right. I am so glad I didn’t join because I found out the guy behind it wasn’t a good guy. Michael Jackson was a JW. Do you think he was sexual abused as child and that’s why he abused children?

  • Karin says:

    The Jehovah’s Witnesses (haven’t been one, but have been in contact with a few) have their own version of the bible, with passages altered to match their teachings (not many, but it’s not technically “the bible” as is).
    I just thought to mention it, since it wasn’t really made that clear.

    Also, as with catholics, and mormons, for that matter, there are additional writings/or the word of people that is taken to interpret the bible itself, so it is automatically much more restricted than it would otherwise be.

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